Hilda Labrada Gore and the Dialogue of Love

Hilda Labrada Gore and the Dialogue of Love

Posted by Daniel Griffith on

In this episode: Hilda Labrada Gore of Holistic Hilda and The Wise Traditions Podcast.

We discuss the importance of unity and diversity in agriculture and how curiosity and asking questions can lead to personal and professional growth. We also touch on the importance of dialogue and community, emphasizing the value of listening to different viewpoints and being open to learning from others. Alongside these larger conversation, we dive into the limitations of social media and the need for more intimate connections, reflecting on the potential impact of viewing the “climate problem” as a lack of invited dialogue, only worsened by technology’s supremacy.

The conversation concludes with the linguistic roots of agriculture and the idea of being versus doing. Love is highlighted as the ultimate goal in life.

— — — —

Hilda joined us at The Wildland this week and spend the day walking with us, talking, sharing a nourishing winter soup of broth, beef, and sunchokes, and watched the sun set over the western, blue ridge mountains.

Hilda is a podcasting legend! Morgan and I have listened to her truly monumental and top-of-the-charts podcast (The Wise Traditions Podcast) for nearly 8 years and to have her here, with us, was a rare opportunity—a blessing.

I got to speak on the Wise Traditions Podcast earlier this spring about the nature of regeneration and agriculture and the many shortcomings that imbue its ranks—shortcomings that are resolvable with humility and patience.

There are many take aways from our time together and this episode. The main of which, primary for us at least, is Hilda’s comment about raising children in the modern age. To do all of this—regenerating land, working for the climate—but to neglect your home, your own family, your own hearth, would be a failure. Many a documentary or paper occupies our attentions recently, as a modern people, about the climate and industrial machine churning as it goes, but what if that conversation instead drifted homeward? What if we started with the hearth, the soil, and progressed to the soil?

Thoughts to ponder.

Quick Links
Hilda's Website: www.holistichilda.com
Awareness Book: Amazon link
Daniel's Website:  www.danielfirthgriffith.com
Denuding the Illusion: danielfirthgriffith.substack.com



OK, welcome to another episode of Denusion, the Daniel Griffith podcast.

I am quite uncomfortable, I have to say. We are on top of a little mountain in the middle of the Appalachian Mountains. We're looking at the sunset behind the Blue Ridge.

There is a fire in front of us, and there's a very important person to my left. I have to do this. I've decided I was on the edge, and I didn't know which way I was going to go with this.

I was either going to introduce you, which I've kind of done a little bit, but I've decided to go the other way. I would like for you, given what you know about our history, which has been all one-sided up until very recently, could you introduce yourself? Could you do your thing?

Absolutely. So hey, everybody. I'm Holistic Hilda.

My real name is Hilda Labrador. It's always a mouthful, so I switched to Holistic Hilda some time ago. I'm the host and producer of the Wise Traditions podcast, and before that, like each of you, we've had our own journeys, right?

I've done so many different things in my life. I was a translator. I had four small kids in five years.

I wanted to have twins and didn't get that, so I just had them in a row. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Then I was a worship leader for years, and now I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing right now, which is hosting and producing this podcast.

I also make content by traveling the world, and I'm trying to just continue exploring ancient wisdom to restore the energy and vitality of humanity, and it brings me into touch with beautiful people like Daniel. I'm so glad that you have me here on your farm, but this is the cool story. So this is my point of view on Daniel's story.

So you told me that you listened to the podcast pretty much when I really started it, like in 2016. Seven, eight years ago? Yeah, 2017, and we never crossed paths in person until we were at an event in April in Fredericksburg, Texas.

And literally, I remember meeting you, and you covered your eyes. You're like, wait, say your name again. You're like, oh, Hilda.

So it's just so fun to me to see what you're doing here at Wild Timshell after having your health issues and listening to the podcast and making beautiful, holistic choices. So I'm really, really grateful and so gratified that we finally get to meet in person in April, and now we're here again. Absolutely, absolutely.

I reached out after I was on the Weston A. Price podcast after that. That's what we met, and we continued it.

And after that episode was released, I reached out. I think it was on social media or something, just like, hey, oh my gosh, you're so close. We've got to get you out.

You're from Northern Virginia. We're Central Virginia. And then life happened and schedules, and I think you were traveling.

Yes. I think you went out of the country for a little bit. But we made it happen.

And I was a little bit, you know how email communications, they drop off a little bit, and you're like, oh, maybe they're just not interested. But you don't know what the other person is dealing with. No, you don't.

They could be busy. They could be traveling out of the country, i.e. case in point.

But I was like, you know what? I'm going to be persistent. Because even if she's a little bit annoyed, she's so close, and the relationship is there, it just needs one little kick.

We can have her out, cook her some beautiful soup, bone broth and sunchoke soup, and spend the day together, watch the sunset on top of this little overlook, overlooking the clear-cut regeneration project with a fire. And so I don't know if you were pestered, but I was going to get you out. I wasn't pestered.

But I did tell my husband on the way here today, I was like, I don't even know exactly why we're going there. But what I mean by that is, I mean, I get invited, as you can imagine, to a lot of different farms. But I just knew it had to happen.

So I will put it that way. I was like, you know what? This is destiny.

We're supposed to come to this farm that's further away than I thought. But absolutely beautiful and unique. Honestly, Daniel, thank you.

No, thank you. So I mean, this conversation is so open, very similar to your visit here. I don't really have many intentions or desired outcomes.

But I knew getting you down in a recorded podcast setting, you would thrive, and we would get through it. But something that is so interesting to me, and maybe we can just start here and see where it goes, something that has been so interesting about your work, because I feel like I'm very close to it, but I do it less well, is your, and so I hope I can learn from you is my point, I want to bring this up very selfishly. I'm going to take all of your information and be better myself, but your ability to differentiate unity and community in your work.

You're not an aggressive, rebellious, truculent person, not at least on the face of things. Like the persona that you have is so welcoming and loving, but you're the host of the Weston A. Price podcast or the Wise Traditions podcast, which if you're listening to this, you haven't listened to it, just listen to a random episode of the Wise Traditions podcast, and one, you're going to learn an unbelievable amount of information.

The people you guys get to spend time with and interview and record, they're all brilliant in their fields, leaders in their fields, but also kind of rebels in their fields. Yes. Very educational, very uplifting, but truculent.

I mean, during COVID, that has its own story. You guys were one of the only voices out there that were putting out what was perceived to be true and obviously, in my opinion, delineated as absolute universal truth regardless, but you were true to yourselves. You kept putting out content.

You kept speaking. You kept integrating a great diversity of voices from many walks of life, many spheres of life geographically. So I guess my question is, as the host of the Weston A.

Price podcast, the Wise Traditions podcast, as a voice who's echoed across apartment rooms of ours for eight years all the way till today, my wife and I, we just were hauling cattle and we listened to the most recent episode. So like even you being in person is so weird. Like I know your voice so well.

How do you differentiate these two? Unity and community? How can you be you yourself in your amicable, your very benevolent, happy, joyous, but also so involved in, not rebellious, but truly iron sharpening iron, progressing into a better state with the world, not by just drinking the Kool-Aid, but asking really hard questions?

I think as a man is involved in agriculture as you are, you will understand this. There has to be diversity for things to thrive. A cow won't do well if there's not a diversity of fiscue and different grasses for it to graze on.

There needs to be a diversity in the soil for it to be rich and alive with organisms that bring that vitality. So while unity is important, diversity is equally as important. And I will say this, unity doesn't mean uniform.

It means all of the bits and pieces have their place. And so I came into this space with curiosity first and foremost. And I think if you have that, and I know you do, because we just toured your land.

If you have that with nature, and you're looking to see what's nature gonna do next, or what's gonna happen if we let this field alone for a year? Not that they're saying that you're always hands off, but you have curiosity, you ask questions, and that makes you a better human. And I think it makes you a better farmer and rancher.

It makes you a better advisor to all the people who look to you. And it is better for the world. And so when I interview people, I try to drop all my preconceived notions.

And I have no judgments, because I'm putting on the mind of a child, of a learner. And when I do that, I absolutely learn. And I'm blown away by the things I discover.

And I don't have to be kind of hard-nosed. If someone comes up with something that doesn't fit with my own worldview, I simply listen and learn. And if it doesn't serve me, I might let it go by the wayside.

But most of the time it does serve me in surprising ways. So I think I mostly develop that posture of curiosity, and I also welcome different viewpoints, because as I think you were saying a moment ago, as iron sharpens iron, like I learn from someone who thinks differently than me. If I shut them down, I'm very closed and I stop growing.

So humans need to grow just like the plants and the grasses and the trees need to grow. And one way we do that was a diversity of thinking. So there can be unity, but it doesn't need to be uniform, if that makes sense.

Social media is overrated. In recent times, Morgan and I have gravitated away from the mainstream social media platforms in view of cultivating a much more intimate connection with our friends, with our community, with our neighbors, with our listeners, with our readers, et cetera. We opened up a sub stack titled denuding the illusion, which is really the namesake of this podcast, denusion, which stands for denuding the illusion, in view of promoting and cultivating an improved sense of what it really means to be human in a medium that isn't as extractive as let's say, Instagram.

We encourage you join us. It's free. The subscription is free.

You're more than welcome to pay for a particular subscription as your financial situation allows. It supports our work. It allows us to write what needs to be written, to say what needs to be said, without thinking of the industrial capitalistic framework around the marketing and production that often surrounds the work of writing and speaking and podcasting and such.

It is denuding the illusion. Please come join us. As we mature in these thoughts, I can only imagine they will emerge and develop in their own ways, like everything else here at the Wildland and the Timshel project.

We will be gravitating even more away from social media, eventually just solidifying down into this humble set of neighbors, community members, contributors, subscribers, et cetera, in programs or platforms like Substack. So if you're listening to this episode and you're enjoying it, you've listened to previous episodes, whoever you might be, first off, thank you. Thank you for being here.

It's a different world when you write and you put your soul on paper or when you podcast, as many know, and you put your voice, which is really just your soul, into these radio waves that echo into some unknown person's ear. You are the unknown person, but I wanted to say thank you. Thank you for being here.

I encourage you. If this is interesting, join us online at Substack. It's free, like I said.

Link is in the show notes. You can just simply go to danielferthgriffith.substack.com. Click the link in the show notes.

Please also visit my website. You will get to it from there, danielferthgriffith.com. Thank you.

Let's get back to the show. Listening to someone speak recently, he wrote a book about, I think it's called The Closing of the American Mind, came out in the last couple of months, I think. And I forget even the author.

It was a random YouTube video that I stumbled upon. And he made the comment, talking about free speech in universities. That's the context of the talk he was given, even in his book, Free Speech on Universities, what that means, what it looks like, should it look like anything at all.

And he made the comment that in order to have any sort of community, I don't think he used that word, relationship, I think is what he said. Let's use the word community here. In order to have any sort of relationship with anyone, you have to have an understanding of who they are.

And not to some full degree, but where do they come from? What do they think? Why do they think it?

Because if words are just cast in the wind, and they have no sort of groundedness to them, they're just words, right? It has no meaning. Like talking about ancestral traditions and indigenous wisdom and such, you know, so much of like, I'm thinking of Robin Wall Kimmerer’s book, Braiding Sweetgrass, so much of that book is dedicated towards language.

Language is so important because, I mean, it's so important for so many reasons. Read the book and you'll understand the fullness of it. But the little part that I'm talking about here, it's language, right, is so good at elucidating who I am, where I come from, my culture, my viewpoints, some beliefs, and that initial foundation or framework allows us to have a relationship, right?

Like, I mean, long-distance relationships between, you know, genders or whatever and spousal relationship types. They struggle, I think, for that similar degree. Like, very easy to see this.

Anyways, my question is, there seems, like, let me ask this very simply. It seems like the nature of your role in The Wise Traditions, a very popular, unbelievably high-performing podcast within reach and effect and impact, seems to have its effective source or the impact that it has seems to be founded in the idea of dialogue. Yes.

That's what I got from you, right? And dialogue seems to be inexorably connected to community. I don't know if that stimulates any thoughts, but that's what I got from what you said.

Dialogue, it's so important. Absolutely. And this doesn't mean that we're going to have somebody, let's say, with a huge lion's share investment in a pharmaceutical company on a podcast talking about how they want to keep growing their company because that is a viewpoint that differs from ours and I'm not sure we want to promote that because it's already got its own propaganda machine out there.

True. Dialogue with limits. Yeah.

Well, this is the thing. If I'm invited personally, either on the podcast, other people's podcasts, or in conversation to share my opinion about ancestral wisdom, regenerative agriculture, emergent agriculture, you know, organic versus local, I mean, whatever it is, and my opinion on politics or what have you, if I'm invited, I will offer it. But if I'm not invited, I try to observe and learn without judgment.

So, well, not always without judgment, but with judgment reserved because I am looking to find what common ground. Let's say you and I differ greatly on how we want to handle this land here at Wild Timshel. Let's say I have some ideas for a particular block and you have another idea.

I don't think I need to hammer home my point because I must defend it. I think I can express it and you can either receive it or let it go. But I don't need to use words in a weaponized form.

I guess that's what I came away with, what you were just talking about, a dialogue. Dialogue is great. A war is not.

So I'm not going to come at you. I wasn't looking at Thanksgiving to have a fight about, you know, how things went down in 2020. No, if I'm asked my opinion, I will offer it.

But not everyone is receptive. So I don't want to just throw my words out to the wind or use them in an unkind or demeaning way. So I think this is one way in which I keep the tone of the podcast, though it can touch on controversial topics.

I try to keep it positive because I try to remember that we're all human at the end of the day and that underneath the words is a person with feelings and world views that have shaped them and maybe that have been programmed into them that in a brief conversation I might not program out, but maybe I could plant a seed if I'm invited. So that's how I go about interpersonal relationships and even the podcast. And I do like to end always hopefully because even if you and I have different points of view on, like I said, how to manage a particular block of land, one way or another, I think it's more important for love to cover all than for one of us to win out in that particular debate.

Right, right. Absolutely. This feels possible in my brain.

Maybe this works. Maybe it doesn't. Oftentimes you leave my brain and everything falls apart.

I'm thinking, so I'm watching the sunset and I'm thinking about the climate and I know the Wise Traditions podcast. I mean, I've heard some global climate change type, biodiversity, soil health sort of conversation. I mean, I know the podcast is generally for a lot of life and health and things and this is only maybe a minor aspect of the general talk there, but the question is pertaining to dialogue and being invited and not really seeing it as a war.

What do you think would change if our view of, let's say the climate problem. Let's just say there's a problem. It's called the climate or there's a problem surrounding it and the effect is the climate, but let's just categorically call it for ease, the climate problem.

What do you think would change if we view the climate problem as a lack of invited dialogue? Wow, you've left me speechless and that doesn't happen very often. I mean, if we actually could talk about it, you mean?

Talk about it between ourselves, talk about it with other species, talk about it to it. Like what if, and this is just asking a very similar question, but from a different angle, what if the climate changing was it retreating in, and I shouldn't say it, she, her, retreating in grief because she was seen as an it, something not to have an actual dialogue with. What you're saying is, if I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, that invited loving dialogue is the foundation of a long-term relationship, not necessarily uniformity, right?

And uniformity is the negative aspect of the climate process, climate problem, again, using very streamlined language, where we see, you know, I mean just, you can literally hear clear-cut logging crews in the distance, that entire mountainside was just purchased as 3,000 acres. They clear-cut logged at 3,000 acres in less than three weeks and they're just cleaning up. You can see them working into the night this Thursday evening.

And so, you know, the singularity, uniformity is the problem of the climate, right? That, to some large degree, is what is being argued. And so, if uniformity is the lack of loving invited dialogue, open dialogue that does not judge, I guess my question is, can we solve the problem of uniformity, even from a ecology perspective, with the invitation of more dialogue between species, intraspecies, interspecies, et cetera?

I think words are only like signposts. As you know, they can't quite, they're too superficial. They can't quite capture the essence.

Like if you call your wife Morgan, I know that's her name, that is only a label to the essence of who she is. There's so much more to who she is, right? So, I think words are a little bit limiting.

And so, I would say, what we need is not necessarily dialogue, even with the earth, but we need connection, something deeper. And this is what I liked about you on the Wise Traditions podcast. I remember you said, we are Mother Earth.

We are and we've forgotten. And so, I would encourage people to not be afraid to explore a connection with nature, their own connection with nature. And I don't know if I said this before, but so I'm coming from a Christian framework.

I became a Christian in my early teens and I felt like, oh my goodness, this is what I've been looking for my whole life. And so, in the Christian religion, sometimes they get afraid of personifying the earth. They want to, a little bit, I think, sometimes objectify it and they get nervous about phrases like Mother Nature or in South America, they call Earth Pachamama.

And I remember I myself was like a little bit hesitant about all that. I was like, oh, no, no, no, don't start personifying because that could lead to pantheism where we're worshiping it. But then I realized the earth has an essence, just like, I mean, I know humans have a deeper essence, I would say, a more sentient, cognizant, self-aware essence.

But nonetheless, if we're all made by the Creator's hand, then there's an essence in there and we're not meant to be apart from creation. We're a part of it, which I think is what you were getting at in the show. So what I'm trying to get to is this.

If we reconnect with nature, and this has taken me some time to do myself, I even still now live in a city, but I make an effort to touch the ground every day, to get the sun in my eyes before I look at a screen, to make small choices that can lead to that greater connection. So I'm no longer threatened when people personify the earth as Pachamama or Mother Nature or, you know, call it a her or what have you. I was even in Mexico, actually, as part of a temazcal ceremony, which is like a sweat lodge.

And when I was in the lodge with some Aztec people, they were saying, you know, Gracias, Abuelo Fuego. Thank you, Grandfather Fire, for, you know, your warmth. And Gracias, Madre o Abuela Piedra, like where they were personifying the rock and saying Grandmother.

And I found it very beautiful because I was no longer holding a judgment against that. And I do think there's an essence in everything. Everything is more alive than we may have ever realized.

And even when it dies, it's nurturing the earth again. So like nothing ever leaves, I would say. And as a friend of mine says, there's no lie in nature, and also nothing is wasted.

And so this is so reassuring. So if we can just drop the words for a minute, I would say, forget about dialogues with other people or with the earth. Look for true connection and get out and look at the sunset or touch the ground as we're doing just now and see if that doesn't transform your understanding of what needs to happen next.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I was I was reading a particular author and I was also raised Christian.

Or, you know, that's I shouldn't say that you were. I mean, I understand your story started in your teens, but I was raised in the Christian faith. And very recently, I was reading the particular Christian author, more ancient from Middle Age time, a little bit later actually, but around that era.

And he was saying how pantheism, it's so detrimental, so anti-Christian, whatever the word he used, because you know, what does it say? What did he say? He said, a tree is not scary until it can grow human legs and arms and attack you.

But it's the humanness in a tree that is scary. And I thought that was really interesting. Because if what he's saying is true, then what a lot of this Christian arenas, I don't know, arenas is the totally wrong word, I'll continue with it, but it's the wrong word.

With this Christian arena or realms issue with the worshiping of the earth, even from like a topical perspective, you know, seeing like a mother tree or mother earth or pachamama? Pachamama. Pachamama.

You know, I think it's so easy to put humanity in other created forms. Does that make sense? Am I making sense?

And the reason I bring that up is a tree is a tree. And as long as a tree is a tree, it's good. But to understand a tree as a tree is also to see the virtue in the thing.

Just as a human being a human is also in some very creative, intrinsic foundational sense, also very good. And we also have the Genesis creation story of, you know, the creator saying it is very good. And so I say all these words purposefully, but my point is, and I guess there's a question at the end of it, there's a certain level of self understanding that being nature requires.

Like I say this so often, but when a cow is out in a field, I just, and maybe it's just my stubbornness and maybe I'm totally wrong, but I refuse to believe that it's thinking to itself. I wonder how I can be a better sheep or deer. It seems to be so lost in its cowness, whatever that means to it.

And we will never understand, but it's so lost in being itself that it's consumed by it. And as it's consumed by it, and I should say to the degree that it's consumed by it, we also see an equal proportional degree of all the other life around it being consumed by itself, right? Like the better the cow, the better the grassland.

How does that work, right? And so I guess what I'm asking is, let's let a tree be a tree, but as a tree becomes a tree, it is forcing us to realize or ask the question, what is a human? Like what does being a human mean?

And in all of our stuff, we've picked up the phrase relearning or happily relearning what it means to be human. And so like, I obviously have some ideas and they're played and I don't really care about them. I'm curious about you though.

Like what does being a human mean when you just said be in relationship with earth, right? You're not saying be a rock. You're not saying be earth.

You're being a human. Yes. A part of creation with nature, but still human.

What does that mean? What does that look like? I think it means that we have to come back to our essence.

And I think we've been distracted. I've got to be blunt with you, Daniel. I think we've let technology usurp our soul.

In some cultures I've been in, they don't want you to take a photograph of them because they think it will steal their soul. And I know exactly what they mean now that I see people bowing their heads, not to pray, but to scroll through another series of TikTok videos. And I'm no better than the next.

I can get sucked into my device as well. But I think we need to be really aware of its hold on us. They say it's entertaining, it's mesmerizing.

Think about what those words mean. Entertaining means to hold onto. Mesmerizing is kind of a hypnotizing thing.

And these devices are robbing us of something. And they're not the first thing to come along. Before that, there was just television.

Before that was just radio. And certainly before that, it was a deck of cards that people would say, oh no, it's tainting us and taking our humanity from us. So let everyone draw the line in the sand wherever they want to.

But I would suggest we need to stop being entertained and engaged by something outside of ourselves and come back home, which is to be in creation. The Bible talks about how the heavens declare the handiwork of God. So I'm not offended when people say to me, this is my church, nature is my church.

I'm like, okay, that sounds biblical to me. I'm sorry, that might sound heretical to others, but I really believe these things, the beauty of the trees and the cattle we saw today and the chickens, like it all points to something greater than me. And I forget that wonder when I'm satisfied with a chuckle at a silly meme.

I forget that and I lose myself. So I think to get back in touch with our humanity means to connect with nature, to set aside the things that simply distract us from our own being. And that's where you started this question with being.

And I'm too quick to become a human doing instead of a human being. And what I mean is I'm a little misactive and I got another podcast up there and let me check this thing off that I did on social media and I wrote a blog post. I mean, that's all great, but it's going to become more and more meaningless if I'm not grounded in a stillness that I think God even calls us to.

I'll tell you a quick story. When I was in Australia, I met with some Aboriginal people who were kind enough to share some of their wisdom with me. And one woman said, in our tribe, we have a custom called dideri.

Dideri, and that means it's a deep listening. And immediately to my mind sprang, you know, Psalm 46.10, which says, be still and know that I am God. And I was like, oh, stillness.

In this stillness, we get a chance to be and to maybe hear the voice of God, maybe hear the voice of our ancestors, maybe hear the voice of our conscience. But if we're always running and doing, we're going to miss it. And we're going to miss even who we are.

And we're going to get to the end of our life. We'll have climbed the ladder of success, as they say, and be like, why is this up against the wrong wall? How did I end up here?

And I left so many important things behind. And I want to recommend a book right here, right now, that has really been pivotal to my life. And it's a book called Awareness by Anthony DeMello.

He was a Jesuit priest in the 20th century. And I have read this book countless times. And Anthony contrasts two moments in a life.

He said, picture how you feel when someone says, good job. And they pat you on the back. And they're praising you for something.

OK, you can feel how that feels in a second in your body here. Contrast that with how it feels to see the sunset, to rub your child's hair at night before you go to bed, to have a nourishing broth of soup, as we just did. There's something soul-lifting and something in all of those simple things that return us to our humanity.

So I want to call every single listener right now to think about dropping the distractions, dropping the devices, dropping to the extent you can. I know we all have jobs and stuff. But leave them aside and make sure you make time to be still to rediscover who you are and whose you are.

I was going to ask you for a takeaway at the end. I think that's good. I think that's just absolutely brilliant.

Well, I'll put that book Awareness by? Yes, Anthony DeMello. Anthony DeMello in the show notes.

Brilliant. I mean, we can continue talking all night. Everything you're saying has transference over to the agriculture and the things that I've been working on.

I'll say this because I just can't help myself and then we'll conclude it. But in writing Wild Like Flowers, a book that came out in 2021, I think I might have even mentioned this on our conversation in the Western Wise Traditions podcast. But even when you think of a farmer linguistically, and I know there's so much other layers here that we've dived into, but just going back to linguistics in general language-based dialogue, a farmer being a cultivator of the earth.

Watch a Super Bowl and you have some Ford or Carhartt commercial that literally says these words. I mean, this is the popular mantra of the agricultural yeoman and the yeoman farmer and agriculture in general, even regenerative agriculture. And so I looked into the etymology of the word, the history of the word as it was built.

As you take cultivation and you bring it to the Latin, so you bring it from English to Latin one step and it's called tivo and it means to till, to turn or to toil over. And I read that and I thought to myself, yes, in some large degree or to some large general sense, this is agriculture. It is work, it is tilling, it is toiling, it is doing, it is busyness, it's technology.

I mean, like how couldn't this be the case with how much technology has infused the agricultural process? I mean, tractors, harvesting corn and driving themselves, I mean, like all of these things. And then I wanted it to be more.

So I started, I kept doing research. I didn't give up. I usually would have given up at Latin, but I extended it a little bit further and cultivos cognate.

So the word that cultivo was built off of, it comes from the Koine Greek and it's palo. Palo, Greek, built cultivo, Latin, that built cultivation or cultivator of English. And palo in the Koine Greek does not mean to till, to turn or to toil over.

It means to be or to become. And I read that and I was like, okay, I'm gonna write a whole book on this. So that's basically what Wild Like Flowers is written off of, the idea of, like you said, how do we be instead of do?

How do we be instead of do? And it's so interesting that our understanding of agriculture and nourishment and land stewardship, call it what you like, has its etymological root in the idea of being. But we've lost it along the way.

And I'm not saying that the Latin language is akin in this analogy to technology or that the Romans were worse than the Greeks and they had technology. I'm not saying these things. But the point is, in some analogous sense, the Latin language stood as technology between where we are today and the actuality of life.

The payload and the production of food in the modern sense. Anyways, I wanted to say that because I think what you're getting at in that has some intrinsic ties. But is there anything else?

We've been talking for a little bit. The sun is now setting. It is cold.

The fire is dwindling. I don't wanna keep you all night. Is there anything you wanna leave us with?

Well, I just think it's something we were talking about earlier about how love is the most important thing. And that's something that we can also lose when we get obsessed with outcomes or money or products. I think God did make us not to just be consumers but to be producers, to be creative.

We've been given these wonderful tools of hands and feet and minds and spirits to use. But I think it's really important to remember that the end goal is love. So that if you make Wild Tim Shell everything it was ever meant to be, but if you neglected your three little ones, something would be missing.

It would be a shallow victory. I want to invite the listener to remember that as well, that love is ultimately overall. And so set your sights on being because the more we are who we're meant to be, like you were talking about, our little place in the ecosystem of life, everything will be what it's supposed to be.

And I think love will be overall. Well, thank you, Hilda. My pleasure, Daniel.

This has been great. Absolutely.


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